Comments on: Your Will Be Done http://consumingjesus.org/2009/03/20/your-will-be-done/ Beyond Race and Class Issues In a Consumer Church Mon, 16 Jan 2012 15:25:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Paul Louis Metzger http://consumingjesus.org/2009/03/20/your-will-be-done/comment-page-1/#comment-376 Paul Louis Metzger Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:11:12 +0000 http://consumingjesus.org/2009/03/20/your-will-be-done/#comment-376 Kevin, thank you for your heart and biblical vision. I am grateful to the Lord for you for your leadership at our church. Your authenticity and intentionality in seeking to bear witness to the diverse unity in God's kingdom for God's glorious love through our group "RECONCILE" and our church as a whole really encourage me. Kevin, thank you for your heart and biblical vision. I am grateful to the Lord for you for your leadership at our church. Your authenticity and intentionality in seeking to bear witness to the diverse unity in God’s kingdom for God’s glorious love through our group “RECONCILE” and our church as a whole really encourage me.

]]> By: Kelsi Johns http://consumingjesus.org/2009/03/20/your-will-be-done/comment-page-1/#comment-372 Kelsi Johns Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:04:46 +0000 http://consumingjesus.org/2009/03/20/your-will-be-done/#comment-372 Kevin I appreciate your story and your observation that as we are isolated from multi-ethnic communities, the more detached we become and it then becomes much more challenging for us to truly care. Consequently, we become passive about overcoming division. In a sense, it becomes "out of sight, out of mind". And this is why it is so crucial for us to help each other identify it, recognize it, and engage it. This is when "each other" comes in. We need each other to move forward and to imagine another way of worship, another way of community. Community does not mean a group of like minded, like skinned people, but sadly, to me that what community has come to be if I look around at the "community groups" in churches, schools, social functions. My prayer is that we re-imagine the basic idea of community. Lindsay I appreciate your point that we should not focus on race in and of itself that it becomes a fight for diversity simply for diversity's sake. But I also strongly agree with Brad that racial equality and multi-ethnic community does truly matter, and where you don't have racial equality and reconciliation, you have oppression and division. The latter is not representative of the kingdom of God. As soon as it doesn't matter to us, this is when we quit resisting and transforming the systemic powers that perpetuate these ills. The racial division and segregation in Portland that Kevin laments about is by no means a climate issue. But I would agree that the kingdom of God transcends loving somebody simply because they have a different skin color. Rather, we should love everybody equally because Christ loves them, and we are called to love one another as we love ourselves. The key is that we don't stop at race and class division, but rather work through it and transcend it to bring about true reconciliation in the power of Christ. Kevin I appreciate your story and your observation that as we are isolated from multi-ethnic communities, the more detached we become and it then becomes much more challenging for us to truly care. Consequently, we become passive about overcoming division. In a sense, it becomes “out of sight, out of mind”. And this is why it is so crucial for us to help each other identify it, recognize it, and engage it. This is when “each other” comes in. We need each other to move forward and to imagine another way of worship, another way of community. Community does not mean a group of like minded, like skinned people, but sadly, to me that what community has come to be if I look around at the “community groups” in churches, schools, social functions. My prayer is that we re-imagine the basic idea of community.

Lindsay I appreciate your point that we should not focus on race in and of itself that it becomes a fight for diversity simply for diversity’s sake. But I also strongly agree with Brad that racial equality and multi-ethnic community does truly matter, and where you don’t have racial equality and reconciliation, you have oppression and division. The latter is not representative of the kingdom of God. As soon as it doesn’t matter to us, this is when we quit resisting and transforming the systemic powers that perpetuate these ills.
The racial division and segregation in Portland that Kevin laments about is by no means a climate issue. But I would agree that the kingdom of God transcends loving somebody simply because they have a different skin color. Rather, we should love everybody equally because Christ loves them, and we are called to love one another as we love ourselves. The key is that we don’t stop at race and class division, but rather work through it and transcend it to bring about true reconciliation in the power of Christ.

]]> By: Brad http://consumingjesus.org/2009/03/20/your-will-be-done/comment-page-1/#comment-370 Brad Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:29:23 +0000 http://consumingjesus.org/2009/03/20/your-will-be-done/#comment-370 in our contemporary American culture I don't think there is much help to be found in the "cold climate/light skin" theory. Detroit, St. Louis, Chicago, New York, etc. are places with large percentages of persons with darker skin and these are hardly warm climate places. And while Portland may have a smaller percentage of African Americans than some other metropolitan areas, even on the west coast, it is still a very multi-ethnic, multi-color city. I have lived in LA and the Bay Area as well as Portland. But I have also lived in the mid-west. If you want to see monochrome lightness, try Waterloo, Iowa or Reeve, Wisconsin. Portland is a place of great diversity and yet our churches rarely reflect that. So why should we care about recognizing race distribution and working to do something about it in the church? Simply because God cares about it. Jesus came to minister among one particular nationality of persons, but even in the choice of his all Jewish/Israeli disciples, does one suppose that there was no conscious thought to diversity on the part of Christ? What must a Zealot have thought about Jesus choosing a tax collector--a hated lackey of the oppressive Roman Empire--to join his band of disciples? But more than that, the church that Jesus established is to be a community of all the nations, one which purposefully breaks down racial, gender, and socio-economic barriers erected by society (Matthew 28, Galatians 3). If Christ has this kind of vision for his church, how can we not care about racial distribution in the church in the midst of a racially diverse city? To God, bringing together into one community people separated from each other by social barriers is clearly one of "the things that really matter." in our contemporary American culture I don’t think there is much help to be found in the “cold climate/light skin” theory. Detroit, St. Louis, Chicago, New York, etc. are places with large percentages of persons with darker skin and these are hardly warm climate places. And while Portland may have a smaller percentage of African Americans than some other metropolitan areas, even on the west coast, it is still a very multi-ethnic, multi-color city. I have lived in LA and the Bay Area as well as Portland. But I have also lived in the mid-west. If you want to see monochrome lightness, try Waterloo, Iowa or Reeve, Wisconsin. Portland is a place of great diversity and yet our churches rarely reflect that. So why should we care about recognizing race distribution and working to do something about it in the church? Simply because God cares about it. Jesus came to minister among one particular nationality of persons, but even in the choice of his all Jewish/Israeli disciples, does one suppose that there was no conscious thought to diversity on the part of Christ? What must a Zealot have thought about Jesus choosing a tax collector–a hated lackey of the oppressive Roman Empire–to join his band of disciples? But more than that, the church that Jesus established is to be a community of all the nations, one which purposefully breaks down racial, gender, and socio-economic barriers erected by society (Matthew 28, Galatians 3). If Christ has this kind of vision for his church, how can we not care about racial distribution in the church in the midst of a racially diverse city? To God, bringing together into one community people separated from each other by social barriers is clearly one of “the things that really matter.”

]]> By: Lindsay http://consumingjesus.org/2009/03/20/your-will-be-done/comment-page-1/#comment-363 Lindsay Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:57:29 +0000 http://consumingjesus.org/2009/03/20/your-will-be-done/#comment-363 Growing up in Los Angeles, and used to a very multi racial setting, I struggled a bit when I first moved to a mostly white neighborhood and school. It felt odd to be in the race majority. And then I thought- Why am I bothered so much about being aroudn white people? Isn't that just as bad as someone feeling bothered that they around many races? Everyone talks about being "color blind", but they can only be "color blind" when there is a certain mix of colors. If one color is more plentiful (even heavily so) than another, all people like you and I notice is that imbalance of color. So, why does it matter if there is an imbalance? Couldn't it just be coincidence and not segregation? Or what if it's more than coincidence? My co worker from Peru and I once had an interesting conversation. Her theory is that people from other races whose ancestors grew up in warmer climates tend to choose warmer climates to settle in. People who have darker colored skin usually have ancestors who came from equatorial or tropical areas. So that would explain why So Cal, Texas, Lousiana, Florida (our warmer states) would have a higher concentration of people with darker skin. And, it might explain why Portland isn't a very attractive place for people who are more comfortable in warmer climates. You would find a higher concentration in our northern, colder states of people with Russian, Irish, British, Sweedish heritage. And it's not as obvious with those heritages that they are any different than the other "white" people you see because their ancestors had light skin. :) Anyway, I think she has an interesting theory. I keep meaning to look it up to see if there is any research on it. I don't think Jesus chose His apostles based on color. I can't imagine him even making sure there was "even representation" from each culture. He invites all to follow Him. He invites all to salvation. I think that the sooner we stop recognizing race distribution, the sooner we'll all focus on the things that really matter. Growing up in Los Angeles, and used to a very multi racial setting, I struggled a bit when I first moved to a mostly white neighborhood and school. It felt odd to be in the race majority. And then I thought- Why am I bothered so much about being aroudn white people? Isn’t that just as bad as someone feeling bothered that they around many races?

Everyone talks about being “color blind”, but they can only be “color blind” when there is a certain mix of colors. If one color is more plentiful (even heavily so) than another, all people like you and I notice is that imbalance of color.

So, why does it matter if there is an imbalance? Couldn’t it just be coincidence and not segregation? Or what if it’s more than coincidence?

My co worker from Peru and I once had an interesting conversation. Her theory is that people from other races whose ancestors grew up in warmer climates tend to choose warmer climates to settle in. People who have darker colored skin usually have ancestors who came from equatorial or tropical areas. So that would explain why So Cal, Texas, Lousiana, Florida (our warmer states) would have a higher concentration of people with darker skin. And, it might explain why Portland isn’t a very attractive place for people who are more comfortable in warmer climates. You would find a higher concentration in our northern, colder states of people with Russian, Irish, British, Sweedish heritage. And it’s not as obvious with those heritages that they are any different than the other “white” people you see because their ancestors had light skin. :)

Anyway, I think she has an interesting theory. I keep meaning to look it up to see if there is any research on it.

I don’t think Jesus chose His apostles based on color. I can’t imagine him even making sure there was “even representation” from each culture. He invites all to follow Him. He invites all to salvation.

I think that the sooner we stop recognizing race distribution, the sooner we’ll all focus on the things that really matter.

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